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The Wreckage of Desire: An Interview with the Anti-Christ

By David McNair
April 21, 2003

If the daily news is any indication, there seems to be no end to the violence, cruelty, greed and corruption in the world of politics, business and culture. It is enough for even the most devout believer to wonder if humanity has perhaps been forsaken by God. It’s also enough for a journalist to wonder if there might be a malevolent force behind it all.

Several months ago, I posted an announcement on our website and an ad in several national newspapers in which I asked the Anti-Christ to reveal himself by agreeing to an interview. At the time, I was only half-serious. I just wanted to see what would happen. Did the Anti-Christ really exist? If so, would he agree to an interview? As far as I knew, no one had ever tried to ask the Anti-Christ for an interview. But I just put it out there and waited. Of course, I received a lot of phone calls from pranksters and weirdos who were either unconvincing or clearly disturbed. But one call stood out. In fact, it made my hair stand on end. The following is a transcript of a phone conversation I had on March 31, 2003 with a man claiming to be the Anti-Christ. During the course of the interview he spoke through some kind of machine to disguise his voice, but he was very frank and convincing as he revealed his profession, discussed the state of evil in the world, his weaknesses, why he feels more like a party host than an evil manipulator, and the future of the human race.

oldSpeak: So what form have you taken on earth? Where do you live now and what do you do?

A-C: I’m an American actor, a quite well known one actually. Of course, I can’t tell you what name I use, but if you really think about it, if you look deep inside, I don’t think you’d have too much trouble figuring out who I am. It’s really the perfect profession for me. I’m a false idol and people love me. I can use the various roles I play to enforce my views. As a historic figure, an infamous villain, an indestructible action-hero, or a God-fearing family man. I can imbue the roles with subtle evils and appeal to a broader audience. Being a movie actor is the new nobility, status and glory bought at such a small price for such little effort. And, of course, a society’s preoccupation with celebrity is a measure of its spiritual emptiness. I go to a shopping mall and perfect strangers surround me like gawking idiots. What is it they are seeing? People throw themselves at my feet because they saw my face on a movie screen or a magazine in the supermarket. People get so twisted up in love and hate in my presence. Looking into their faces it’s sometimes hard to tell whether they want an autograph or are going to pull out a gun and shoot me. I have no real responsibilities or authority, and yet I get invited to the White House and asked to entertain world leaders. I travel and live all over the world…it is really the ideal vantage point from which to work my mojo on the mass of humanity.

And what exactly is your mojo? What does it mean to you to be the Anti-Christ…what do you have against Christ?

I am the argument against Christ’s existence and teachings and influence on your lives. Christ didn’t die for your sins. How absurd! He died because he made no attempt to live. He was a lamb walking willingly to the slaughter. I believe in aristocracy, in the noble soul, the super human, the will to power, not some sickly martyr sending everyone on a guilt trip. Why is it people say "Jesus Christ!" when they are angry or enraged? Because it is their true natures trying to rise up out of the thick muck of Christian mythology that has thwarted human evolution for over 2,000 years. I say stand up for your noble ego, celebrate your vanity, judge your enemies ruthlessly and seek revenge on those who would dare seek to undermine your authority, let your terrible anger loose on the world, don’t stifle that which is most fiercely beautiful in you because you can’t bear to see others suffer, call for war with clear voices and fists in the air. As the power and glory in you manifests itself, the lesser beings of the world will suffer and fall away until finally a noble aristocracy of humanity will evolve that values pride and self-mastery over pity and self-sacrifice. Christ teaches you to turn the other cheek. I want to teach you to knock the head off whoever dares to strike you, to tear the heart out of whoever displeases you.

Well, that was impassioned…

I’m sorry; I get a little riled up every time I talk about the Holy One. I’m Yin to his Yang and so naturally I veer off into evil hyperbole whenever I get on the subject. I’m actually not that evangelical about it, not on a day-to-day basis anyway. In fact, I go to church every Sunday just to temper that anger and remind myself that I am indeed an "angel of light."

You go to church?

Certainly. As the Bible says, "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." You see, it’s important to keep up appearances. Especially when you have cultural, spiritual and eventual political ambitions like mine.

You have political ambitions?


What power-hungry egomaniac doesn’t?

Considering all the violence and chaos in the world right now, it looks like you might have the upper hand over Christ right now. Could you give us a quick rundown on the state of evil in the world? What have been some of the new trends and developments?

Things are looking up. Hubris and unmitigated gall are reaching new heights, that’s promising. Politicians no longer bother covering up their lies and schemes anymore because they’ve realized that people don’t care if they lie and cover up their schemes. I’m also happy to report that two new sins have taken their place beside the existing seven: ambition and self-pity.

The impulse to sell-out, to say and do almost anything to get what you want, is nearly unbridled in our age. In fact, for many people selling-out has no negative connotations at all. It’s not compromising or giving into temptation and greed–it’s a stated goal. It’s amazing how many people are excited to see me even after they find out who I really am. In the past, people tended to struggle a bit with the idea of dealing with me. They tended to view it as a serious compromise. They knew what it meant. Today, and I’m not saying this is true of everyone, people tend to view it as an opportunity with consequences. I’m like the spectral equivalent of the lottery to these people. Sure, I’m dangerous, I want your soul, but I know Bill Gates, the President, Brad Pitt and Steven Spielberg. I can change your life. And, of course, this is directly related to the growth of self-pity. How much easier it is to sell, shall we say, extremely high-interest loans of false happiness, to those who view themselves as victims of life, who feel forsaken by God.

I also find the impulse toward preemptive war promising. Not that it’s really anything new…but now it’s being played out in large scale on the world stage. You see, the great weakness in the teachings of Christ is the call to love one’s enemy…it is where the faith is most severely tested and therefore vulnerable to my influence. After all, how is it really possible to love an enemy? To love someone who has mercilessly harmed or murdered someone you love? How is it possible to love those who flew planeloads of people into buildings full of people? Isn’t it natural to want revenge? To want to crush those who would even think of doing something like that again? Bloodlust and revenge fueled by terror and fear seem to be the themes of the age. And I don’t see that trend reversing anytime soon. Fighting a war on terror will only make terrorists of everyone. And that puts me one up on the Holy One.

So things are going according to plan…

Listen, people have this preconceived notion that I am some kind of puppet master ruling a secret empire of evil. That the violence and chaos in the world is somehow being orchestrated by my soldiers. The truth is, I feel more like I’m hosting a party. Everyone’s having a good time, it’s getting late, it’s getting a little wild and weird, and I’m just walking around handing out drugs, hooking people up, scaring the crap out of them, and trying to keep the fun and chaos going all night long. I have no real opinion or position on things like the Middle East. My opinion is that violence begets violence, fear and paranoia create hysteria, and that’s good for business. If I have any goal, it is to profit from all the chaos and suffering. You see, to me all this is natural. This is how the world really works, and the vision of the Holy One is simply naïve. Reality is what works and doesn’t work in the natural world. Christ is an argument against reality, it’s swimming upstream, denying our true natures, separating our godliness from our base desires when in reality it is all one and there are no sins, only the volcanic energy of nature and our extreme self-awareness.

Nations prosper on the suffering of other nations, individuals get rich on the labor of the poor, justice is served to those who can afford it, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, nice guys finish last. This is reality. That’s not to say some other reality isn’t possible, that peace on earth isn’t possible. But as far as I can tell, no one has figured out a way to make that work yet.

So what’s your definition of evil?

Again, people think I have some agenda. I don’t. I’m apolitical. I think it’s arrogant of people to assume they know who I am or know who is under my influence. Evil is love gone bad and love is evil gone bad. It is the wreckage of human longing and desire. It is the desperate and angry cry of the forsaken, the brokenhearted, the grief stricken. My job is to pick through the wreckage and attempt to offer people an attractive, temporary and somewhat dangerous alternative to the love of Christ…which is the more compelling love and worship of human desire and ego. Why worship God when you can be a god? Honestly, I have trouble with the word "evil." I don’t think I’m evil. That’s a label people put on me. We name things in this world to order and understand our lives. At one point or another, all throughout history, that which we were ignorant of was considered evil. Evil is a name we give to that which we don’t understand and are afraid of. An evil is a problem only when we perceive it as such. Embrace what is hidden and repressed and it is no longer evil, it is simply nature. Do we call the lion evil when it kills the helpless gazelle? Is the wind evil for stirring up a tornado that splinters houses? Why is it we label ourselves evil when the wild forces of our own natures assert themselves? To me there is no evil, only the wild, untamed and natural forces in our hearts and minds and groins.

You sound like an anarchist.

(Creepy laugh)

Indeed, I am, in the ultimate sense of that word.

So what do you want exactly? What’s your goal or plan for humanity?

My wants are infinite. In fact, wanting to me is an end in itself, the goal if you will. Endless wanting, endless need, endless desire and endless possibilities are what I live for. I have no goal, no plan. I am a rebel without a cause, a terrorist without a faith, the raw end of a nerve, the wild force in the universe that refutes logic and the power of love, that calls into question everything you hold dear, everything you hold onto to keep from being sucked into the abyss and cast off into the oblivion where I reign. I’m here to make sure you step out of line, to make sure you screw up your chances of finding lasting happiness by tempting you with the thrill of the moment, with style and flash, with desire and its instant gratification, with weapons of destruction disguised as intoxicating treats and indulgences. I set traps. Nothing pleases me more than when people become unwitting participants in evil…that beautiful moment when someone realizes that their good intentions have inadvertently contributed to or caused some horror or their own destruction. But I have my limitations. I can’t make you do anything you don’t decide to do yourself. I can’t tell you something you don’t already know. In this regard, the new resurgence of self-pity has been very helpful. Someone who views themselves as a victim, who believes other people and other forces are responsible for their condition, who proceeds to debase themselves with no help from anyone else, will always be vulnerable to suggestion, to relying on the opinions of the other, and will almost always be blind to the power of their own free will.

So you admit you have weaknesses?

Listen, I’ll let you in on a secret. I really shouldn’t be doing this, but…well, the truth is I am ALL weakness. I have no power whatsoever. I am so easily defeated that I sometimes wonder how I manage to exist.

How is it that you are easily defeated?

Well, I’ll tell you, because, of course, you already know…and because knowing it won’t help you in the least. I am easily defeated because you are simply more infinitely powerful than I am. You have within you the power to say no to everything I suggest, and to physically subdue me if you have to. Thanks to God, you have the power to shape the world in any way you please. Yet you often CHOOSE to listen to me. All the great risen one and I can do is lead you down a certain path. We can’t make believers out of non-believers. In fact, there are people who inadvertently do my job for me by pushing too hard for political and social reforms, who think morality can be lectured or legislated…. Take Prohibition, for example…which basically created and empowered organized crime…or the war on drugs. And again, today, if you continue to push gay rights activists and pro-choice people hard enough with criticisms and condemnations and calls for new legislation instead of trying to win their hearts you’ll end up perpetuating that which you seek to stop or change…and if you do succeed in suppressing homosexuality or making abortion illegal, you simply push the problem underground where it roils and festers and eventually bursts forth in an even more evil form. Censorship and criticism are as ineffective on the masses as they are on your children…(laughs) Listen to me! I sound like a civil and human rights advocate!

(Sighs. Takes a deep breath.)

I’m merely a salesman in a nice suit with a bright smile, your favorite uncle, the bartender asking you if you want another, the grinning face on a movie poster…preying upon your vulnerabilities. But the thing is, as human beings, you will always have these vulnerabilities, these moments of fear and doubt, these reckless desires and faults, your anger, your blind righteousness. And as long as that is so I will be everpresent and indestructible.

So to destroy you…

All of humanity would have to live without ego or desire.

An impossible task.

Exactly. As my friend Nietzsche wrote, "the pure soul is a pure lie."

It doesn’t look good for us human beings?

Listen, you all have the advantage. Like I said, God has given you the power to shape the world in any way you please. Perhaps it’s just that you haven’t evolved far enough, perhaps under God’s microscope you are all in some primitive amoeba stage of development, and that the possibilities for your enlightenment are simply beyond your comprehension at this point in time…who knows? Meanwhile, I’ll continue to prey upon your souls with my obfuscations, whispering into your ear a twisted mantra of affirmations and lies designed to undo you.



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